View Full Version : Lifes too quiet
So the wheel turns ...and with that so does time.
Time to think of where we are going in Tourney Ball NZ..
Dont tell me about "oh overseas this, overseas that.."
I'm talkin NZ ..New Zealand..Land of the Big yawn;)
We look overseas to seek direction of sorts...But in reality we should be looking no further than our own shores.
The Black Gats came and went.
They NZPL sorta started ..welll sorta
One thing I know about ballers and that is "we" need organisation!!
I know its all noble..and good on Stylo for trying..But call me old fashioned, but players like to be told what to do..We are sheep not sheperds..ok cept the guys from Hillbilly country.
I say lets get back to basics.
But in the same token...I will be in Wellers at Easter to shoot the ball..with some new guys...I have faith that the guys I have known for years in ball will not let NZ ball go arse up .
B2 body surfing top the ol sack o'seed:)
ANTSMAN68
26-03-2006, 21:40
"I say lets get back to basics"
yep i agree with that totally.
Things will start moving along soon enough.
;)
NZPL is not dead, it's under new management.
justover
27-03-2006, 09:06
It would good to be able to turn up to a torny with out all the wank that goes on before and after it.
Justin
Burnt Toast
27-03-2006, 11:22
Well thats what I do, just turn up, keep your wanks to yourself
hey B2 didnt you start something like this .. just before Pbnz was shut down?
mawhahhahah
waylander
27-03-2006, 21:51
whats wrong with NZ paintball.
1. So many politicans...so few peasants
2. All the love between everyone
3. All the "whats wrong with NZpaintball threads"
Not really Sy
I asked the question and some ppl took offence at being asked it.
What im saying is..and you know its tru.. Paintball needs direction
The events need organised...
I know the next 2 events will be...
Its easy to sit and say nothing until after an event..then have ppl moan thier collectives asses off.
What Im saying is..lets cross the T's and dot the I's before all events.
I see lots bailing out of ball..some of who were the"go getters" well supposingly..I also see lots of new guys coming thru too.
I just dont want new guys to get in to something that fails to come up to thier expectations..you know that Sy.
So as much as I am going thru to Wellers to shoot the ball..I feel a bit let down.
Either way hope to see ya there
Bman
Burnt Toast
28-03-2006, 08:24
Thats why I'm helping B2, so it meets my expectations.
your right in what you say about people bleeting after an event, but you get that with everything.
Last time I had that happen, I turned round and said "help me make it what you want", and they all shut there mouths and I changed nothing.
I'm very much looking forward to my first BIG 7's event, and it's going to rule.
i'll be there B2 ..... Road trip
Road Trips are all good..Gets all the guys mind melding ..Ok so thats alcohol induced but all good.
That for me is one of the great things I enjoy..
Flying out from Dunedin into another City to shoot the ball.
From picking up the van to meeting the guys out the field to bourbs/food back at the motel with the odd spa thrown in..awesome.
This is what keeps me movitvated..its all about good times and shooting the ball..
The Politics in ball has been there for years and always will be.
The thing I struggle with is..How cheap it is now to play and yet we are seeing a decline in Tourney ballers..Not Reccys but the guys I will see at the Tournaments.
For most part I see the guys I hold with great kudos..Guys who I know come hail rain or snow will front up and shoot ball.
I read in a post a while ago..The damn old schoolers...sometimes if it wasnt for those guys..well I know the answer...
Its not even about Old schoolers V The Bling Boys;)..Its about prioritising your hard earned dollar and your will to play.
I see some of my guys..blow approx$ 100 on drink and junk food..Yeah i like all that too..I aint no teetotaller.
But then come Paintball..oh No money.
I say..just cut back a lil bit..not all the way ..christ that would be friking scary, they would end up like Danners" Mr Clean" ;)
But seriously..and I dont need costs thrown at me..I know all that.
I read all about the RULES and what do we use ..then see the thread gone on for days...
Now if we had that much passion to actually play the game as we spent on here..well Paintball in NZ would explode.
Just my thoughts on a oh so Sunny Dunedin day.
I have committed Flashpoint to the 3 events this year..paid for the airtickets to Auk already..I paid that for my boys..we all get there on time.
Roll on Wellers and good weather?
Bschizzle
Awesome to see some commitment. I'll be there even if I'm not playing (car packed up = no money).
I think people do have the passion to play, it's just they can't be bothered with all the other stuff like transport and tickets and sleeping and such, there's a lot of stuff to fight through and organise. Perhaps streamlining the process is something the NZPL could look into at some stage. Provide somewhere to crash, provide some catering included in the entry cost maybe, organise transport and whatever. Hmm.
The Joka
30-03-2006, 16:05
Provide somewhere to crash, provide some catering included in the entry cost maybe, organise transport and whatever. Hmm.
This makes me laugh and the exact reason I have thrown it in!
Everyone wants a deal like this yet everyone moans about the cost or effort!
The people that I was playing with got offered heaps i.e. Fundraising opportunities and no one wanted to get off their backsides and work for it!
I have also offered to help with the NZPL and with MikeE on the Big Boys Toys deal, So all though these people do great work for NZ Paintball I wonder how much is dribble!
This is my $10 worth of moan and might just stop these posts "what is happening to Paintball in NZ" it is dying because of the times people are lazy and dont want to comitt to anything or do anything!
Moan over
Peace out The Joka
watch for me in the future!
P.S. I have wanted to say this for ages!
well... I'm not making any promises, but it's still worth considering things like catering and whatever. We'll see what happens.
Joka..Can I ask you this..Put aside the Politics..
But and you can shoot me down here cos if Ive met you I cant remember..But how many tournaments have you played..as in the 3 Majors?
I can understand your views on ball and politics..But if you give in to the words that are written on here..then you are just a pawn of the political grind that we are trying to make better in ball by giving our views and ultimately a code of practise on Paintball Tournaments which all events must adhere too..Now I arent saying Events have to change either.
Bman
ultimately a code of practise on Paintball Tournaments which all events must adhere to
that's exactly what Graham envisaged, and what the NZPL will be working towards.
ANTSMAN68
30-03-2006, 23:30
Vijil, its all very well saying "thats what Graham envisaged" , but, and this is a big but,,, he is not around any more, and also his partner that was the other half of the NZPL has sold his paintball gear... if you know something the rest of us dont know about the future of the NZPL maybe now is the time to say something? cause as far as i know, with the two people driving it down the gurgler for the forseable future i cant see how its a happening thang.
In general i think what b2 is saying is right, we need to get back to the beginning, start afresh, with a place, a time, the costs, and teams will show up to play ball. the frills can wait for a year or two, we need to start from scratch, get the existing teams in NZ playing each other regularly, and rebuild.then we have something to build from and expand. i really cant see the point in rushing to make the same mistakes with regards to politics/this organisation or that/committee this committee that, lets get the community playing again regularly, no frills, then worry about the finer details later on when it is established who exactly (teams) is committed for the next few years, and what exactly the teams want in order to continue playing.
playing paintball is as i understand it what we all want to do, and secondly sit around in committees, draw up porposals, and discuss the way the universe spins and all that related pooh pooh.
i have been playing for 5 years, nowhere near as long a lot of guys, and a lot longer than others. we have seen in those 5 years no countrywide governing body, then we saw the start of one(nzppa), then it grew , then it was pooh pooed out of existance, then another comes along, now that is gone too, all for what? a hell of a lot of bad feeling and a hell of a lot of bullshit on the very medium that was intended to unite and grow us.
time to get back to basics , play freakin paintball, yes play which means get out there and shoot paint, we dont need another organisation right now, we dont need another committee, we need players to be playing, not selling their gear and going offf to play petanque(sp?), so lets leave the poo poo committee organising , proposal making to the twats that pretend to run the country.
Ants
The Joka
31-03-2006, 08:38
B2,
Yes you have met me!
I have played 2 majors and attended 5 (counting Northland open) I also played the 5's reasonably regularly played the Hamilton 3's (which were a credit to skinny and the most enjoyable out of the lot) played some scenario sundays at actions played some own gun days at actions attended O'reillys 24hr game, been down to hamilton club days a couple of times and would attend splatterzone in Hamilton frequently not so much lately though. I would have played more of the majors (Wellington this year for example) if I had a team to play for also attempted to get our guys to CHC tourny (just coz i think CHC is an awesome city) a couple of times but again lack of comittment, and it was too much money for me to front with the possibilty of losing it!
So in the year and a half to two years I have been around I put alot of money and time into Paintball!
LESS B.S. IN PETANQUE (what a great post Ants)
dannefaerd
31-03-2006, 09:28
if you know something the rest of us dont know about the future of the NZPL maybe now is the time to say something?
I have agreed to help out on the NZPL from Graham moving forward. Working through some of the detail at the moment, but will have something to send out to the captains in a week or so - by Easter at the latest.
Ok so the title sounds Explosive..But it isnt..
As I see it..and I read Ants post so I know we both agree on this.
The NZPL and the 2 main guys is gone..
The NZPPA which has been there for years is still here, albeit in the back ground. Now I see the NZPPA as a tool for the rules , regs etc..Not running events as such..That my friends is where the NZPL stuffed up.Players for players only works on a local level I believe as in Mattys 5's etc.
Going Nation wide fails.
The Events are run by Field Ops / Event organisers who do it for both monetary gain but also for the support of ball in NZ.
We all know Players are notoriously bad at organising themselves..and yet we moan when a guy puts on an event and may even make a buck..
I personally dont have any probs with that at all.
Basics..as Ants said.
Turn up to the event that is organised and play ball.
The Op sorts of the Refs and al the other crap that he has to..I just sow up and play..how sweet is that..Basics.
Rock on Wellers
Im gonna shoot ball, drink and be happy , happy , joy ,joy
Bschizzle
The Joka
31-03-2006, 10:32
I agree with you!
But to find out info you have to come onto the forums and then find a team to play with!
To many Chiefs not enough indians!
The only way a comittee will work is if ALL the Field ops support it or run it!
I too have no problem with people making money off me! as long as the tournament is worth the money!
I think Pete & Brendan had/have it spot on! with Rotovegas tourny
Disasterpieces1
31-03-2006, 18:37
To many Chiefs not enough indians!
You've got it the wrong way round dude, theres too many indians not enough chiefs, like everyone before me has said 'The Nzpl started then fell apart' and like ants said "we need to start from scratch". Maybe even rebuild the Nzppa.
Josh he was speakin from his experience in Auck..
A thought sometime ago was to organise.. that word again.. a Major ,the biggie like was played years ago at Actions .. the Nationals
Now Im not sayin go back to Actions ,what im puttin to you as that on Labour weekend a tournie is run as the one .. the biggie .. so that all the little teams that are out there can save and build towards this one date...
To be honest pb is on a down ward slope we all know, but this is towards 7 men and 'THE' series.. if you look around a bit closer more people are playin ,havin there own gear ... BUT they arnt overly intrested in playin a a series ...
Why cost, travel , organising 7-8 people.. dont flame on the cost ,cause it does effect people....
Im puttin this to the people.... A one off national event.. The bells a whistles event to get everyone 2gether..
the other events still occur wellers,auck etc
I think NZ ball began running before it could walk properly and we are having an attack of the stumbles
ANTSMAN68
02-04-2006, 10:06
yeah i agree Sy, but most will argue that Labor Weekend is the Roto thing, which is "supposed" to do exactly what you are saying.personally i cannot see the sense in such an expensive stadium boosting the entry fee to $1000, when most people i have spoken to are in aggreeance that new teams are needed, so seems a hindrance to me paying 140 each for entry over and above the other associated costs.... wont this make new teams think twice about attending? i think so. and if you read this Pete, this aint a knock at all, just the truth as i see it, which i have been saying for years.Why over hype/complicate a tournament when we need to walk before we can run, er stumble.
Sy/ Ants you are both correct in what you are saying..We as guys who have been in ball ..now Im talking Tourney ball so we know what we are saying..at at least should.
We coudl actualy go back before Easter became indoors and for those that can think that far back would know that the "South Pacs" at Tball was the shizz..Up until "sup air" came to be...Tball was the one to be at..followed by Actions at Labour Weekend.
Of course times change and politics stepped in..and so we are in this quandry today.
For me Roto Vegas if to coin a phrase "The Biggy" is just that..or should be..To be fair its the last one in NZ for the year so its got the advantage of players aiming/saving for that..
But Wellers/ Auk Qbday in there own right are as important for the life blood of NZ Ball.
I wont mention costs..as its a lose lose arguement with players.
I know this...My guys and myself are attending all 3..we save and work towards that..we cost each event at $1k per person...The hardest one is the Queens Bday whcih is 7 weeks after Easter so its astruggle but we do it..For all the soppy sentimental reasons a girlyboi might imagine..To play ball and catch up with mates...Ok and to wave the Mainlands flag;)
Ive often thought..How hard would it be to meet and work out what we can do to boost our game..
Yes I know the NZPPA and NZPL have good ideas ..But at the end of the day...It comes down to X players ..the guys who hold the strings to paintballs future in NZ..
My thoughts on a Sun morn after shovling down some lovely Blueberry crepes with cream..mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
GangSTA B
bloody yuppie.. blueberry crepes .. u wash them down with a mocca latte as well ehheehe...
Now believe this or not ..we have a generation of paintballers who have never played in mud and some have never been shot with a proper paintball hehe , not sayin its abad thing , just mentioning it to ya all..
I .. yes I have considered running a back to the future tournie....ask me some time ..
Ok a thought again .... do we look at returning to 5 man..... I love 7 man games , but ..How many fields are set up in NZ that are wide enough and long enough to allow 7 men to be played ...properly..
With a little bit of time .couple of weeks I could field 2 5 men teams but culdnt put a 7men together ... doesnt sound right but its the truth...
yes B2 it costs you to fly .. it costs us to drive too so we each have our costs. and dont start the SI , NI thing again ... because if you set something up we would come..... well some of us would.
Now for me Im a hired gun now.. dont really have a team so I just play for or when ever I can.. yes I am a bit stand offish about organising and running things due to previous money losing in this sport.. but thats my sob story hehe
Answers.. I really dont know.. self reffn tournies nah...hangin with a bunch of mates , shootin ball yip ..
Well ive been thinkin and it hurts...
Some thing the great Robbo mentioned in a post... the US is lucky they have 3 groups of paintballers... Tournie ballers, Rec ballers and bush ballers..
The difference you ask.. well the middle group is the main stay of ball..
the play the odd tournie and the odd bush,sceneario game .. but they play ball just about every week.. they are in it for fun and the thrill
the bush baller plays occasionally .. doesnt spend much or shoot much ( the wargamer ie)
In NZ we dont have the real middle ground.. actually englands the same.. we have the tournie ballers ..well kind of ,we have the bush ballers.
but it seems if you wanna play more ball .. u have to be come a tournie baller.. u then come up upon the big guns who will hammer u..
This is not a means to an end its just a thought provoker show people whats out there..
I know teams have collapsed .. disappeared but the majority of players are still around but .. dont have anywhere to go .. team game wise..
Disasterpieces1
02-04-2006, 16:27
If by changing to 5man you mean xball then i'd be dead keen on that. But other wise keep it 7man.
"but ..How many fields are set up in NZ that are wide enough and long enough to allow 7 men to be played ...properly.."
I assume by this you mean the indoor fields around the country?
Remember paintball first started out doors.....and is still played out doors... you cant tell me that there isnt an abundance of reserves and parks more than large enough to accomidate 1 or 2 full size 7 man fields.
5man .. xball .. nah not really
I agree id like to keep playin 7 men..
Yip we have lots of fields and reserves .. just refering to how many fields.. field ops that actualy have an area set a side already that is large enough...
Try the Millennium M5 or M7 formats, seems to work fine for them in Marseille.
I'll let you know more after Bitburg.
5Man of some sort is good just because we don't have that many players in the country and it would mean we could have more teams. Good point about the small fields too.
Not to mention that internationally 5man/xBall is becoming more and more popular - the UPBF have been set up to create international standards for rules and reffing and to get paintball into things like the olympics. PSP and Millenium and PALS are all members and they seem to be leaning towards XBall as an international standard format - based on what I've read.
If we play the same game as everyone else then overseas teams would be more likely to come over, and our teams heading overseas would have a better chance of kickin some A. That and playing an internationally standardised game gives the sport more credibility both at home and abroad if we end up going for SPARC funding and things like that.
7 Man is just fine.
5 man as some us know has bee tried on the tourney scene..we jumped up to 5's and really I dont see much use in changing.
I know if we added all those that play 7's together we woud have more 5 mans teams..It just doesnt work that way in reality.
Take Dunedin for instance or to that point anywhere in NZ. We have 7 guys who play in the team ..ok occasionally we have 8 players(rarely)
Now based on lets go 5 mans again..who do the extra 2 guys we have play for...why should they play for another team when they are dedicated to that team.
You see the probs that happens...So stick to 7's
Bman
Dudes Im a noowby but I can tell you all that since joining Sth Aucks club (no names!!) they think they are the shit!!! no two ways about it,BIG time.
As a noowby mate/s, no one wants to talk to you, they look at your gear and laugh until you get on the field and nail a couple then they think twice and start conversation. I've been playing for about 2-3 months and want to play tourny ball as recball is abit...no disrepect to recaballers but I've taken more noowbys under my wing since joining cos thats the just the type of person I am...and as for the pro's, they just take the dudes with entry level or highend markers and forget the rest who want to learn...now there's your get back to basics no matter what gear peeps have, we need to teach and nerture for the sake of paintball or forget it!!
Direction, thats where it needs to come from and if there ain't any of that then just make paintball what you can wether club, yourself or group.
I love this sport and have played many from lawn bowls to rugby league. I ain't stoppin now...or make me!!
ANTSMAN68
03-04-2006, 21:44
iroam, you are prolly a bit right, as i know tournee ballers can "appear" outwardly to be "snobbish", but the majority only wanna play ball, and shoot people :), and prolly dont make as much effort as they should to "talk to the new guys" , sad but true, i guess we are all guilty of it at some stage. on the other hand, they are Aucklanders up there ...pffft :)
if your near Wellington Easter weekend come have a look at the tournament...
Ants
Burnt Toast
04-04-2006, 06:23
B2, don't worry about losing players when going from 7 to 5.
belive me, when you play X-ball you WILL NEED to sub people in and out.
I understand that..Just we dont need the 5 man format as in X ball. But I feel we are getting away from what my original post ws about.
Any loss in players would be short term anyway. It's not like two people in every team in the country would stop playing tourneys just because we went with 5man. If the people actually want to play, we'd end up with more teams medium term.
sorries for OT...
Anyways I'm keen to have a go at xball sometime. Not sure if it would or would not breathe new life into the sport in NZ, there are two different camps here. The AXL didn't exactly go balistic.
As much as you think it will be all good..It wont be.
Take my team for example "Flashpoint"
Do you think by it becoming 5 man ..my other 2 guys would play for another team in Dunedin..answer would be NO..not cos they dont want to..Because there isnt another team otherwise I wouldnt have to milkfeed my guys into ball .
I see the 7's do very well in OZ..X ball isnt actually all that its cracked up to be if read all the reports.
So stick to 7's just get the organisation sorted ..THEN ppl will come back..Its as simple as that.
NZPL had its chance..some times in life you get one crack at the prize..It had its chance and essentially blew it.
NZPPA is a recognised body for NZ Ball..I arent waving its flag either as I arent on the committee nor do I wish to be ..ask me why and I will tell you I have too much work already to do let alone NZPPA stuff. But they are our voice as such.
Stick to what we know.
Bman
you're thinking short term, I'm thinking long term. Short term, maybe 7 man is better for numbers.
Long term (like 3+ years), things will pan out and I don't really see any logical reason why 5man would be a bad thing. Especially since 5man may well become the main international standard.
Good points though.
ANTSMAN68
04-04-2006, 15:30
long term in paintball, anything is possible,especially overseas from switching to xball, to 7 man and back, its all possible,but they have tens of thousands or tournament players especially in USA,.
short term for NZ paintball, we need players and teams attending our tournaments, changing format in my opinion hinders any gains we have made.
i believe Sy said it " walk before we run".
our player base consists of around 10-14 teams at best, thats less than 100 persons at the most.
Vijil will you be playing Easter?
Ants
the_distant_one
04-04-2006, 16:19
Dudes Im a noowby but I can tell you all that since joining Sth Aucks club (no names!!) they think they are the shit!!! no two ways about it,BIG time.
As a noowby mate/s, no one wants to talk to you, they look at your gear and laugh until you get on the field and nail a couple then they think twice and start conversation. I've been playing for about 2-3 months and want to play tourny ball as recball is abit...no disrepect to recaballers but I've taken more noowbys under my wing since joining cos thats the just the type of person I am...and as for the pro's, they just take the dudes with entry level or highend markers and forget the rest who want to learn...now there's your get back to basics no matter what gear peeps have, we need to teach and nerture for the sake of paintball or forget it!!
Direction, thats where it needs to come from and if there ain't any of that then just make paintball what you can wether club, yourself or group.
I love this sport and have played many from lawn bowls to rugby league. I ain't stoppin now...or make me!!
just on ya comment bout the south auck clubs not sure where you joined up but the boys out at adventure in kura have been freaking awesome!!!!! any probs I jsut ask someone out there. If ya looking for tourney play come out to the next 5's talk to matty he'll set ya right.
On the rest of this topic I was thinking about it today. REally what it needs is someone to stand up and go HEY I'm gona take some dam control of paintball in NZ.
Not promising I'm gona do that.... but give it time... give it time
Disasterpieces1
04-04-2006, 16:33
I think reigonal X-ball would be kool because you wouldnt loose anyplayer base except the un-athletic.
In areas such as Auckland/wellington where its feesable to field 2x 7 man teams would be able to have 2x xball teams but in places like christchurch etc where theres only one 7man team would still beable to have an xball team with adequit subs, and beable to recruit guys for there team still.
5 man or 7 man..X ball or 7's isnt the issue about Paintball.
The Issue is more complex which is really going to take more than what we are doing writing all this stuff.
I see the main contenders in ball getting together..away from ball away ,from the damn pc for a weekend and talking over the future of NZ Ball.
Coming up with a consensus on how to attack Paintball from the ground up..
You see theres more to paintball than playing the game.
I just feel the powers to be need to get it sorted.
Bschizzle
Looks like I will play easter ants :)
Snackman
04-04-2006, 18:19
Ok. Maybe someone should just do something other then posting ideas on here?
Everyone says we should change for seven to five or keep it as seven or even change to X ball, but no one has said they are actually going to do it in terms of starting a committee or running an event.
Josh, you want X ball why not just start an X ball league? B2 you want it to stay as seven why don't you run a seven man series? Vijil, you want five man then why not start a five man series?
No one else is going to read these ideas and do what you say. You want to make a change then start it yourself. Talking about it also won't make magic fairies come down from the sky and heed your every call.
I shouldn't have posted but I did and I'm probably going to pay for it. But its a shame to have all these perfectly capable people talking about what COULD do, but no one stating what they are GOING to do.
Quite all your bitching and get off your asses and fucking do something.
Take a new player to the field
Help out at the field
Help a newbie
Lend someone your gear
Talk to the local paper
Offer to ref a tournament
Put together a team
do a flyer drop
but fucking do something...
I wonder sometimes..
I wont quote ya MikeE cos its pointless
This thread should now cease as its usefulness ceased..
Anything after this is pointless..
Still comes down to who holds the baby.
Nuff said
B2 roger wilco and out
I think it's good to talk, there have been some good thoughts put forward and reasons for thinking those ways. If somebody is going to start something big, it's useful for them to see what people have been saying warts and all.
I think people will start actually doing something soon.
dannefaerd
04-04-2006, 21:15
Easter. Next week. Let's chat. Beer/Bourby. Saturday night even. I'm keen ... anyone else?
p.s. Xball rocks :)
i agree marty while evryone is together for easter why not have a meeting to talk this stuff over we dont get anywhere on the forums maybe face to face contact will do it better.
!!IM IN!!
lets go to the strips like last time
What has shagged PB in NZ worse than anything else in the last 5 years?
Easy.
The internet.
Think about it...
blame teh intarweb.. it has teh hax0red teh paintballs... omg hax0rs!!!!!!1111!!!!one!!!!1
Snackman
10-04-2006, 19:34
I'm keen. I just can't drink burbon or go to the strips without my Mum killing me.....If she found out. ;)
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