View Full Version : Reunification anyone?
dannefaerd
15-06-2006, 11:10
Looks like the re-unification threads are starting again - there is a good one over on www.p8ntballer-forums.com (as usual). It can be found here:
http://www.p8ntballer-forums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=64599
Again I say this would be a good thing - global standard anyone?
Well you know what I think - Be great if the NPPL would join the PSP because they're in the UPBF, that would put a lot of weight behind the concept and then perhaps TV networks would start covering whatever the standard ends up being.
Regardless of whether the Nelson series ends up being NZPL or not, eventually we will have a series which uses standard rules and is considered to be the primary league to play in in NZ. Then we can get the BlackGats started again and go kick some A at the olympics... unification is the only way to get the sport enough kudos to become olympic.
[/lecture]
Master_Blaster
15-06-2006, 17:50
Dude! Dream on about the Olympics. Skateboarding has been around for a long time and has a way bigger following than PB.
For now just try and sort out our own back yard and get the sport organised in NZ. You know! Decent league, sponsors for the league (maybe even a non-paintball sponsor), consistent marshalling, regular press coverage.
This should keep NZ paintballers occupied till the end of this century.
Remember any commercial entity is looking for the following; spectators (not your wife, mom and kids), then the press & then the sponsor.
The press and sponsor one is a bit of a chicker or egg exercise. You're going to have to show stability in the league and then attach a marketing and business division onto this so that these people can deal with the $ issues.
The Olympics is whole different kettle of fish.
I will dream on. An ultimate goal to work towards is a great motivating factor, and having a knowledge and appreciation of what people are trying to do with the sport internationally is important to keep in mind so that things will go more smoothly long term. It makes no sense to focus so hard on our own corner of the world that we'll have trouble integrating with international standards long term.
I'm thinking about marketing now - that's my education. And decent marketing requires long term goals.
I'm definitely not saying we should neglect New Zealand ball and getting all the details sorted out.
Master_Blaster
15-06-2006, 18:04
Bro. You misunderstood my comment!
No anger! Just opinion! :)
mmkay no worries :)
Just came across as a dig is all.
Master_Blaster
15-06-2006, 18:26
Look you are right! I am just a big believer in devide and conquer. You CAN control your own back yard. Get that into shape and then go after the bigger goals. Once you have the homeground sorted you can just modify to fit into the bigger picture.
Big picture is important but normally more difficult to achieve and the time frames are longer. In addition people also have very short memories or rather concentration span. So I suppose setting smaller milestones will keep the heard interseted (I dont mean this in a derogatory way) :) .
We agree. Perhaps I'm just more of a long term thinker than most.
It's about balance same as everything. Big picture isn't that hard though - it's just one step at a time (starting here and now). Someone has to keep it in mind is what I'm saying.
Master_Blaster
16-06-2006, 06:03
Gotcha! Saying the same things here. We are really just discussing the scemantics.
Anyways. I think NZ needs a solid organisation where players and commercial interests are represented in even votes. Players tend to want everything for free. Commercial is just that. Money talks BS walks.
I agree strong with you Vijil.
Balance is the key.
But this is all talk and theory. How will it get done? That is the big question.
How to turn academics into reality????? :)
And *that* is what Marty and G and MikeE and a bunch of other guys I can't remember have been trying to figure out for ages now...
Head Shot
16-06-2006, 12:55
and this is no dig just trying to understand, what is the problem? why can't we all decide one one path and just get on with it.
same reason we all just can't decide to pitch in and fix starvation in Africa - people have different ideas about how it should be done and can rarely agree, even if we all want the same result.
Head Shot
16-06-2006, 15:45
do we even have a working national body at the moment?
nope. Eventually we'll have to though.
Snackman
16-06-2006, 19:34
Basically everyone wants something, but no one wants to do anything to get it. :D
Everything is political. To be honest New Zealand in terms of paintball technology is like waaayyyyy ahead of where it should be. In reality with the number of players we have we should still be running around in the bush or on concept fields shooting autocockers.
Basically someone needs to step up with sufficient money and time and instead of us having a working national body, we need a working national league.
America never really had a governing body, they just had the NPPL and then the PSP and they're waaayyyy ahead of everyone else in terms of event venues/market size. Unfortunatly because people in New Zealand "own" the long weekends in which they run the events and the fact that these events are the norm and i don't think many people are ready for a change to different events.
So instead of having a governing body that says "These are the events we have sanctioned". We need a league that says "Ok these are the rules WE will use, these are the events WE will run".
This will also help to eliminate this re-occuring problem of inconsistant rules (Millenium/NPPL hybrid, where we just use whatever rules we find apply to the situation)(Might I add that the Wellington event did VERY well to remedy this,thank you MikeE). Mind you, to do this we also need the same body of refs running all of these events run by these leagues.
Er....I've run out of things to say....:D
Krazy Mike
17-06-2006, 00:18
Unfortunatly because people in New Zealand "own" the long weekends in which they run the events and the fact that these events are the norm and i don't think many people are ready for a change to different events.
That happened a few years, the alternate Nationals, but as you said we're too small to start splitting the player base.
Also I know it's been said many times before and this is not the start of a flame war but Auckland teams, as a rule, won't travel outside the auckland area. Rotorua was the one exception... compare the travel done by Auckland teams to that done by Flashpoint, and in a year I'd reackon FP chalk up more distance than all Auckland teams together.
Sure some teams are now going to Oz, and good for them but they're not supporting their own country/series, while expecting the rest of the country to attend their events.
Mike
Head Shot
17-06-2006, 08:53
Dose anyone know even how many players ,teams and clubs there are out there and what they play weather it be rec ball, tourney, pump ect. Perhaps a national register should be started so the needs of the sport in general can be established, i think you will find there are more players out there than anyone really Knows. Start at the begining guys
well it's just a thought:)
Oh yeah the only way to do would be to run it though all the forums if they can put there diffrences aside for the betterment fo the sport.
Krazy Mike
17-06-2006, 09:55
Perhaps a national register should be started
I agree but it has been tried a few times before...usually someone starts complaining about why should they put private info on there, what else will it be used for, who gives you the right to collect information etc, then just grinds to a halt under accusation and counter accusation.
Oh yeah the only way to do would be to run it though all the forums if they can put there diffrences aside for the betterment fo the sport
Again I agree, but look at the whole legal bottle issue, certain sections of the paintball community saw it as a tourny only issue..."the cops/OSH/the man aren't gonna worry if I play in the woods with some friends...we're small fish...we don't go about advertising our stuff is illegal..."
Marty worked hard to get one air tank legal in NZ, and he got all kinds of threats etc for that. Tony in Chch has done very well with a couple more air and a few CO2 tanks.
If this community could work together we could acheive lots. But the simple fact is personal agenda's, pride/egos, and Politics/BS will result in more people walking away.
Snackman
17-06-2006, 10:20
I agree Mike. Auckland has enough players here to add at least Eight-seven man teams to any tournament. Unfortunately alot of these teams don't want to spend that money to travel because all they play is five man hopper ball and don't see the bigger picture that goes on outside of the hopperball league.
Look at Wellington. How many players from Auckland attended? Probably 9 or 10 at best (Simon, Myself, James, Matt, Tower, Rik, Stat, Charlie, Newman...pfft thats only 9 I can think of). Thats pretty sad, considering there are about 60 tournament players here in Auckland.
If a national league could be established by someone which offers substantial prizes/prize money (Like the Super sevens in Australia) then maybe these teams would have an incentive to travel outside of Auckland.
Head Shot
17-06-2006, 11:42
I do see your point there are those out there that would rather cut there hand off than help them selves.
The information collected dose not have to get to presonal it realy is more of a numbers game no one cares what gear your using or where your playing, it's more about what your playing. How do rugby get tv air time and funding half the country plays it, and the have the numbers to prove it.
Thats all that the powers that be look at, numbers.
get the number , you get sponsors , then tv and then the big fish
Snackman
17-06-2006, 12:28
To get sponsors you need media coverage. Without media coverage , companys have no incentive to sponsor you (Rich Telford wrote a good article about sponsorship in an issue of facefull last year). There is currently no media coverage in New Zealand hence no real sponsorship.
Disasterpieces1
17-06-2006, 16:34
Tv coverage should be the last thing on everybodys mind....
"we need a working national league"
^^Thats wat we should all be aiming for. But like what has been mentioned earlier we need teams to support the idea i.e. Auckland teams need look beyond the Bombays.
Head Shot
17-06-2006, 19:33
Yep , have to agree getting way off track.
Whats to stop you forming a league anyway if the auckland teams want to be in the league they will have to travel ,no one ever said the rest of the country has to follow auckland.
and as they say "if you build it they will come"
Snackman
17-06-2006, 20:16
But who will build it? Because its like i said. Everyone wants something but no one wants to do anything to get it. Its going to take someone just stepping up and starting this league before its going to go anywhere.
Master_Blaster
18-06-2006, 04:03
One word to you gentlemen!
### SPECTATORS ###
Everything else is just the icing!
well here goes...why do we need the NZPL....we dont
What is it with NZ paintball.. we have to reinvent the wheel...
Good on Nelson for wanting to start Xball series..Kyns been running a more social like one for most of the year..
8 seven man team in Auckland.. id like to see them.. on paper yes .. But try and get them to turn up and play.. Most are only use to Hopper ball and wont step on the field due to pre concieved ideas and notions that they have read on these forums..
Well in Auckland.. Menace is the only true 7 man team.. Saints is made up with menace fillers..
Sure Legion could be and will be a seven .. just workin on 5s at mo..
You want promotion.. how about BBT.. when this goes a head .. you will get more public than you can chuck a stick at..
Numbers in NZ.. tournie ballers.. 120-130 rec players with own gear 400-500 at a rough quess and conversation with people..
How about puttin the effort behind the NZppa ,it was set up for that reason..
Now Psp was set up to promote the NPPL series.. but we all know about the orginal break up.the rules were a joke.. Millenium set the standard and the rules the NPPL followed..
I agree why Reinvent the wheel
NZPPA only way to go..Get behind them..
Disasterpieces1
18-06-2006, 21:20
If they would show themselves maybe there would be sumthing to get behind.....i personally havnt heard anything from them...
Menace Matt and Hugo are currently the men... but Ido believe they had a meeting and a new commitee has been selected..
Krazy Mike
19-06-2006, 13:05
Menace Matt and Hugo are currently the men... but Ido believe they had a meeting and a new commitee has been selected..
Yes a new committee was selected in early Feb this year. See link (http://p069.ezboard.com/fnzpaintballfrm21.showMessage?topicID=88.topic)
Nothing has been heard from them since. Hugo has done some asking what the issues are but there has been no comment/news from the committee at all.
Maybe we *do* need to reinvent the wheel - obviously it's not quite round yet.
I must question the viabilty (in it current form) of a group when at least one member can not use the groups chosen means of communication with the unwashed masses.
Steven
I must question the viabilty (in it current form) of a group when at least one member can not use the groups chosen means of communication with the unwashed masses.
Steven
Lol... said member is not part of said organisation, hence no problem ;-)
Krazy Mike
19-06-2006, 18:21
Are you still on the committee MikeE? I know at 1 point you tendered your resignation, and I know they were trying to talk you out of it.
Lol... said member is not part of said organisation, hence no problem ;-)
most recent committee as per http://p069.ezboard.com/fnzpaintballfrm21.showMessage?topicID=88.topic
Hugo Kappes
Matt Storey
Kevin Lunt
Mike Earley
Rick Goldworthy
Andy Lunt
Chris Hale
Peter Mumby
Mark Chignell
Gavin Harrison
Grant McNeil
I did assume the 'Mike Earley' listed was you, if it is not, damn someone has a similar name to you.
If it was (i.e. you were then left/never were/only in the room as you got lost on the way to the bar) it mearly reinforces my doubts about the communication channels of that organisation
Steven
Oh ..hey ..screw it.. lets split paintball up again.. Ok Nzppa to the left.. Nzpl to the right.. rec ballers outside where you belong..
Right then.. lets all do our own thing and see what happens.. oh united voice.. hell no
Lets run say 4-5 Nz paintball series..
They do in the states...
Ok im alittle feed up with some serious lack of forward thinkin and i always wonder what is lurkin in the back ground pulling strings
dannefaerd
20-06-2006, 09:14
Less 'what' is lurking in the background and more 'who'.
Krazy Mike
20-06-2006, 11:43
Less 'what' is lurking in the background and more 'who'.
Nah I think WHAT sumed it up better ;)
I ws going to say "who or whats" behind all this but inws beaten to it.
Seriously we should give the NZPPA a chance.
The NZPPL had its chance..
The "new" one wishing to start is just another spanner in the works.
While we have such small numbers playing ball and getting even less in Tourney ball ..then one assoc NZPPA is sufficient.
As much as some and I know its only a few Recballesr ask about a association most just get on and play ball with ouit all the humdrum bs that us Tourney ballers seem to get in to.
The hardest thing is when other groups decide to start up or try to re-invent the wheel for their advantage..yes its not written as such but its there behind the scenes.
So NZPPA all the way.
B2
The thing is, everyone is convinced the NZPPA too has "had its chance".
Disasterpieces1
20-06-2006, 21:31
"The thing is, everyone is convinced the NZPPA too has "had its chance".
i agree. When martin hung up his gloves it was handed over to....'pass?'and......has been done by them since.
All we need is someone or someones who have a proactive attitude to do something. Even if they make up there own little league called the ABCDPL, aslong as the 8 or so active tournee teams back them up and goto the events.
Krazy Mike
20-06-2006, 22:30
I agree, that was what Graeme set up the NZPL for, to take care of the tourney side, and allow the NZPPA to deal with the bigger issues.
hhmm. Let me think..ah yes .DIVIDE AND CONQURE..
We hav a governing body that is recognised by the Govt NZPPA.. ok its quiet..
Yes when Marty left it it nose dived... question is .. how many people have activily supported it..
NZPL was a private organization that promised so much and poof went.. same thing one mans dream.. when he left ..it didnt slip away it vanished..
We need to go back to ...... a single national event..to bring us all together ..ie Kyns Nationals.. Rotorua ..
Build at the grass roots.. hell even Rugbys got this problem ..
Keep having Wellers..Qb in Auckland etc.. but build them as regionals a build up towards the Biggy..
One set of rules.. and point scoring system..
shit im post this some where else.. these flu drugs are magic
I think I've said before that the NZPL is not neccessarilly dead, just waiting.
A little necromancy oughta do the trick.
ANTSMAN68
24-06-2006, 19:48
no teams at tournaments= no tournaments
no tournaments= no where for teams to play
like others have said before council of captains should be driving whatever direction is taken, for without the support and direction of teams captains, what is the point in having an organisation there in the first place?, representing who? and before anyone goes and says anything about the nzpl again, please dont, people were willing to give it a go and support it, then it dies, lets let it rest in peace.
Council of captains... yeah that does make sense. That way you have people who actually have a vested interest in the sport running it.
As for the NZPL - whatever we end up calling it, eventually a national league will have to happen if the sport is to grow significantly in this country. Why not call it the NZPL? It's just a nice logical acronym...
Burnt Toast
26-06-2006, 06:12
Just let it go Vijil.
We have a group of people who have put there hands up to run something (NZPPL), so lets support them.
I don't want to do it, so I'm going to support the guys who do.
Why worry about other steps when we can't even make our first one yet.
Yeah I'm supporting them - hopefully they'll do well.
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