View Full Version : One big ol' Nationals tournament. Who's keen?
Hey guys,
I'm not going to go into too much detail but why don't we have a Nationals tournament every year? I mean NATIONALS, not an event that clashes with everyone else in the country.
My view on this is to make Paintball a recognized and encouraged sport we need to have structure, something that we are just obtaining now. With different leagues going on in different parts of the country, we have seen talent arise from both North and South Island. The problem is, as always, paintball politics.
Now I'm not looking for the thread to blow up and everyone start bitching about one another. Instead, we need to start from a clean slate. I turn up, play ball, have fun, make friends. That's the way it should be. Clearly with both NZPPL and Southern Series events gaining more recognizition and fast becoming the breeding ground for new players, we need to slowly put together a penultimate event at the end of each year for all teams to come together and play.
I'm not saying I have all the answers, but we can look at overseas events and use the basic models the employ to use in NZ. Perhaps a Nationals event during Labour Weekend or some other time later in the year that suits everyone.
Look at it like World Cup. Everyone goes and plays PSP, NPPL, Millenium and some teams never meet eachother because they play in the respected leagues. However once a year, all teams enter into World Cup which is the pinncale of paintball.
Why do we not have this in NZ? We could easily get together 20 Xball teams to play a Nationals event.
This would also mean overseas teams would be more likely to play, media representation and all around positive look for the sport.
Interchanging between North and South Island each year would be a great move too.
Please post up your thoughts. Keep them brief and don't let politics get in the way. The method in growing the sport, making it cheaper and making players better is through unification and conglomeration, not dividing amongst ourselves and having a bitch fest.
Don't argue, it wastes time and gets nowehere. Opinions only. Don't have anything positive to say... Fuck off to another message board!
Jono
Finds dead horse, begins to flog repeatedly.
I think what MikeE is trying to say is, sure it would be great, but there have been a couple of attempts to make it work but it hasn't.
In saying that NZPPL round 3 last year had 20 teams (or about that) and a few of them were from the South Island...
Jamie Innes
06-02-2012, 16:33
Nationals needs to be held on Stewart Island. Because north island and south island people can never make eachother happy :)
hmm that would be good to get something going like that. My concern would be location and if any fields in New Zealand are equipped with tournament play which meet international specs so it future proofs it self . Yet alone the amount money it will need to start such an event. advertising getting the word out there and prizes ect... you all know what's involved with such event's you need Sponsors and world/local/regional recognition.
holdfasthope
06-02-2012, 18:05
I like the idea Big Poppa J... It was great to have so many teams up in Waikanae, but I didn't really think of it as a nationals, it was just the number of teams that turned up and the fact there were no other events being run around the same time of the year - it's viable that ANY event run in NZ could be regarded as a nationals depending on who turns up. Not to bring the event down, I enjoyed playing, but as a South Island player, I still saw it as the 3rd event of the NZPPL. To have a solid event that is independent of both the NZPPL and Southern Series (not saying these 2 shouldn't be recognised under the same banner) which was truely a nationals would be amazing.
I think it would be great for moving our sport forward, and should make it easier to get the media behind it, international sponsors and teams etc... as Jono had said. If it was set in stone, the teams would turn up - who doesn't want to be NZ Champs?
Would have to have a real dedicated bunch of people behind it, and they'd have to be able to play nice and do what's best for paintball rather than what each person individually wants - that seems to be the hardest part to it.
Personally I'd back it 100%. Especially with the Clown Monkeys playing mostly in Australia this year, we won't have the chance to compete in many local events, so winning a series is out of the question - but we could always play a nationals and win that ;)
Armagedonmad
06-02-2012, 18:20
I think it is a great Idea to have 3 events every year in the south Island and 3 events in the north Island.....then one big one called the nationals or NZ nationals or what ever you want to call it.
I know this idea has been flogged like mikeE said but hey K1ng if you can get somthing started or even if this thread can get something started then great.
you Have my vote
The biggest problems are a)that nobody can agree on anything b) NZ is far to small a market for international sponsors to notice (already tried that one) c) the news only really reports bad news and mainstream sports and d) the general public are terrified of anything that looks even close to a gun.
^^ I disagree with pretty much all of that. Paintball does not get parallelled with hunting or such similar, as far as I know. There are also plenty of people out there that may be able to sponsor, just need to look and ask, and make sure they give them something in return. As far as media being all negative, you don't ahve to focus on TV1 and 3, there are other types of media that get wide appeal.
The biggest problem ,as mentioned earlier, is trying to find organisers that can put their bias aside long enough to get a tourney going.
A nz team won over in malaysia I believe (2010) and the only media attention it got was a story on Campbell live about the dangers of paintball and air guns. Insane tried to get sponsorship to go to world cup Asia and only 1 person stepped up. The internationals don't even return your emails. Sponsors of any kind are RARE in this country due to its small size and economic value.
And a National event has been tried many many times (MikeE's dead horse) which usually eventuates as a single event then vanishes into the mist.
A truly national well run event would be awesome but I think the bulls@@t politics and normally high cost (check the entry fees of the overseas events) hasn't changed and will continue to get in the way until the sport has grown a bit more and the economy has recovered.
zutlewurdle
06-02-2012, 21:32
Why would a manufacturer give any weight to NZ when it sees no direct sales there? It's all about money people .... What's in it for them? Buy NZ.... Let the big guys see there is a NZ market and it makes them $$$$ otherwise, they won't invest advertising dollars ( that's sponsorship people ) in the country. Think about that when u plant an ANS order to save 0.53c rather than go through a NZ retailer.
If u ain't in business, u may not get this, but that's the way it works ppl.
Support the NZ retailers, they can put more weighty orders in with the manufacturers and when an event comes up or a team does good .... They can turn round and push the big guys for an 'investment'.
I don't think anyone was argueing that, it's good logic. I think politics would kill it though. In RC racing (what I did before), the racers decided the rues, ran the committees, and orgainsed the events. For the most part, it is the single bigest f**k up in the hobby, as vested interests rule supreme.
SO, to do something like this, get some interest, get some players, then find a committee of non-players to set it up.
JR007 you've kinda hit it on the head as the largest issue, I find paintball is a love it or hate it type sport and the lovers tend to be players. Where do you find a group of people who like paintball, don't play and have no financial interest in it who are willing to basically work for free. Insane tried to get a monthly x-ball series going, sketch had the 3's, SY had his big event, we were organizing our own events and it was politics ( be it field or players) that crushed them all.
It's a good idea that was thrown around last year as well, but nobody stepped up to make it happen. That and there's always some chump who decides to run a conflicting event.
Ideally the SS would remain as is and the NZPPL would become more like a Northern Series (I can't honestly understand why they haven't already - I'm guessing it's politics) and then combine for nationals.
As for "people who like the sport but don't play and are willing to help out basically for free" - there are a few. Time and money are the problems.
I know this gets brought up time and time again but it's time to step it up. I'll flog it until it can not be flogged anymore if I have to.
Sponsors are now recognizing New Zealand, look at Nicky Cuba coming over to play SS1. Ryan Greenspan holding clinics. We are landing ourselves on the map.
When I say "media" I don't mean traditional TV1 or TV3 news articles. I know for a fact that the girls team up north gained some good publicity on Breakfast a while back, but we need to be looking towards media who are involved in the sport... DerDer, Social Paintball, Rising Star etc. Those are the companies that will make this happen.
I think that we could easily host two full sized fields for a Nationals event. Location would always be an issue however somewhere central [Wellington area perhaps] would probably be the cheapest for everyone. Maybe a one year on, one year off policy where the North holds it one year and the South holds it the next year, subsequently interchanging every year after that.
The more we talk about it now and the planning that we start the better this event will be. Right now I'm calling for all event organizers to come together and form an opinion on this. I want to hear from the guys who run tournaments, field ops and paint suppliers to come together and attempt to make this happen. The sport has potential to grow, we have good players and we have potential for sponsors to recognize us. Hell, I remember reading that Aus had the biggest prize pool of any other league in the world in 2010 [Or 2011].
Lets make it happen guys.
This may be a stupid question, but has anyone thought about whether it should be speedball or woodsball nationals. Sounds odd being woodsball nationals, but if you look at the sheer number of fields and rec players of woodsball vs speedball, it may be an easier sell.
Just had the idea after seeing an old clip of early 90's major comps being televised, obviously before the "arena" style fields existed.
North Island one year, south the next is a good idea. Also keeping it near the main centres. I know it sucks for guys in Otago, or Rotovegas etc, but it does cost a fair bit more to go to the regional areas if you're going inter-island.
Krazy Mike
07-02-2012, 15:24
10 Years ago we had such events, 20+ teams, Aussie teams clambering to be part of it, 2 fields, at a major stadium, with major sponsors and a national committee/body.
But as has been said politics, lies and personal agends saw that end.
The National body no longer exists,
The tournament circuit disolved, and has been regrown a couple of times and is now the Southern Series and NZPPL series.
Aussie built their series up, PALS created their series.
Woodsball would probably need to be a separate thing 007. While there may indeed be a market for it, it should not replace the existing tourney setup. Rec players tend to be less organised and less likely to travel as well (not that tourney players are that great)
legionaire
07-02-2012, 17:45
I have said three regional and one nationals alternating Island and organiser from year to year for a long time. One of the stumbling blocks I have experienced is the fact that for some people holding an event is a source of income and as margins are slim in Paintball they don't want to lose the opportunity to make a few dollars . It is an insane amount of work and stress hosting an event so I understand the need to make money. The players are not the problem, teams will want to play a "NZ Masters" .
I feel that closer co-operation between the SS and NZppl events are possible and I will continue working towards this. It would require the NZPPL to change the date of its third event leaving LBW free for the "Masters" .
That's assuming a four event calendar. It's always possible to have two island events and a nationals - with other weekends for local stuff of whatever to help grow that scene.
legionaire
07-02-2012, 18:09
Agreed but investment in tournament requirements (netting,compressor,airfield etc) need to be paid for so hosting 3 events on each island and a "masters" optimum to ensure costs are covered
Three events for both the North and South Island leagues then having a final World Cup style event as a Nationals.
There would be two divisions based on seedings from each series winners/top placings.
Could work.
Ps guys penultimate means "second best", lol. You're probably after "ultimate"
legionaire
07-02-2012, 18:40
:) edited
I happy to help as much as possible. However due to cost and kiddies time and money is a factor.
Just lemme know.
One thing you could do, is have points for each islands comps, but then double (or triple) points for the end-of-year match. That gives an extra incentive for those to get to the big game.
IT would be alot of hard work .. politics and personal agendas unfortunatly have plagued nz paintball for a number , decades actually of years.
Events have had major sponsors , A GAO we had Dye with $500 u.s dollars ..
nationals have been tried as far as I am aware the NZppl market El Rancho as the nationals ...
As the country does have a common format .. Race in Southern series and 5 man in NZPPL exchanging points maybe a tad differcult .. but hey it can be done .. as has been posted by Mike e .. dead horse ..
It can be done , but format would be a good point and then everyone , teams etc would have to take there heads out of there arses and support the event .. none of this well Big Sy is holding it so im not going .( hehe my post i can say what i want ) it would mean alot of changes .. big question could it happen ..... Yes .. Would it happen .. proable not .. well not at the moment..
I can guarantee that you would have at least 15 players come to a Nationals event from Dunedin. I imagine the South Island would be able to produce no less than 6 teams which would travel to a central/easy location in the North.
Question is though, how many North Island teams would travel South to play?
Are any event organizers willing to put their hand up to host a Nationals event?
Krazy Mike
08-02-2012, 12:56
how many North Island teams would travel South to play?
Cue B2 ;)
The big question is what happens if multiple organisers put their hand up? who decides?
What happens if the event is being run by a rival field op/sponsor and your sponsor says No
i.e I want to go play in Big Sy's event but my local field meantions that if I don't go to this other event (that they supply the paint for) I might not get cheap practice paint in the future?
Believe me it's happened in the past
That is where you really want to have a governing body that isn't represented by fields or (semi)pro teams. The event location itself could be tendered, or voted by the committee. I'd say a % of the entry fees goes to the field, but paint can be supplied by anyone.
I think one of the bigger issues would be what format to use. It appears as though clubs around NZ run all different favourite formats. This probably need to be homoginised before you could get a good number of teams from across the country.
Being a PB nemb, I may be grossely generalising and overlooking some major politics, so apologies if I am.
The governing body was in place in the past, tendering of events was done in the past, personal agendas, controll freak personalities and politics f$&ked that all up. I'm not saying what Jono proposed is a bad idea, I like it! I personally feel that such an event should alternate between islands as to who runs it an where... Well as b2 wisely said in 2k3 the players will talk with their feet... If the right party fronted it, it could happen, there are a number of parties out there in the community that have run large events, delivered a quality event and now can't be assed because of politics, agendas and bullshit... Just my 2c
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