View Full Version : Is it time to chage?
dannefaerd
25-08-2006, 10:46
Also posted on NZPB Online (http://p069.ezboard.com/fnzpaintballfrm2.showMessage?topicID=1986.topic)
I shudder even as I write this. Speaking personally this is something I’ve been against for as long as I can remember … but now I wonder if it is time to change. So this is the proposition:
Would it be advantageous to paintball in New Zealand to change the standard team size from 7-player down to 5-player while the sport here is in decline until we can see some serious growth again?
What has prompted this?
The steady decline of team numbers over the past 2 years.
The steady decline of “tourney” players over the past 5 years.
The regional competition standard appears to be heading to 5-player (Auckland for sometime, Nelson now & Wellington soon)
In the past we have jumped from 5 to 7 and back again … and this iteration of 7-player has been the longest that I can recall.
So is the short/medium term answer to change the format?
Pro’s
Easier to maintain and grow team numbers.
Simpler logistics in moving teams around.
Standard moves in line with regional competitions – allowing consistency on a national stage
Con’s
Not the ‘global’ standard (which is sort of kind of 7-man depending on who you speak to).
Not in line with our local cousins (i.e. Australia]
End of the day something has to happen to stop what is the steady decline of teams in the sport we all love to play. Is a change to 5-man the correct move – in the short/medium term I believe it is – at least until we have a strategy to arrest the decline, have a standard calendar of events, improve the ref’ing standard.
That’s my opinion anyway – what’s yours?
I've thought 5man is better for a while - for different reasons.
Mainly because I was under the impression that xball is normally 5man, and that the UPBF will use some kind of a 5man format if and when an international ruleset is agreed on... I guess that'll be the same as whatever the PSP NPPL merger comes up with.
Also it's better to watch because you're slightly less likely to miss important events if there are a few less focal points. It's faster paced generally, allows more movement, and is easier to film for the same reason it's easier to watch.
Besides that I agree on the numbers game thing. In NZ there just aren't enough players it seems. EQM has been relatively easy to organise for BBT because it's 5 man.
The principal problem I can see is an artifical devide between 7 man Aus playing teams with a stable roster, those Aus without a stable roster (i.e. 5 man team +2), and NZ only teams. This could create an elitest attitude between the groups and a reluctance of teams with international experience to play in 5 man comps (who to cut?), then again it may be easier for these teams to play locally (with different incomes and all).
There may also be 'brand risk', where a team with two or more squads playing in one 5 man comp , and combining to play 7 man, lossing the 'identity' of the second team e.g. XSV X ball vs. Sacremento XSV and New York NRG in NPPL.
I see there being no problem with 5 man, but with larger 'clubs' (2 teams), basically the style one plays would be dictated by money. There would be a diffusion of skills between teams made easier too, the experienced 7 man players on the second 5 man team shaping that team. Those teams wanting 7 man will still play together, and I could forsee:
1) Regional based 5man, limited paint (super 5 styles)*
2) National 5 man, unlimited paint (3 tournies)
3) one 7 man event (propably Easter, as it is the longest break and is internationally occuring)
From a tourny perspective there is also the chance to modifying/ditching Milennium rules for better system, in addition to shorter games.
Steven
* one thing I think would be interested in seeing is teams signing on as 'limited' or 'unlimited' for paint, when two 'unlimited' teams play it is unlimited paint, but anything else it is limited paint
I expect the Milllennium to be some variant of 5 Man next year ;)
Plus (frankly) when have NZ teams travelled anywhere but Aus recently to a competitive environment? I think growing your player base and upping the level of experience and skill to be the key thing. If an NZ team where to go to an NPPL again you'll probably find it tough because of the average level of player in NZ that the teams will come across, not because you play 5 man over 7.
Its going to take a lot more than a format change to "fix" NZ ball so to speak.
Its an attitude change thats required, unfortuantly I don't know how we can influence that..
I really do agree with MikeE..Yes I know 5's would give us more teams ..short term..But in reality thats not the deep rooted issue..
I could give my opinion..Some would say harsh but that the problem.we dont want to listen and if we do we are so split geographically and politically ..well bang ya head on the wall stuff
Beaks you mentioned travel..Cost is the major factor hence travelling to OZ is ok to apoint ..but further afield a bit prohibitive on regular basis.
For the Guys in Dunedin we could attend the OZ tourneys no prob..same cost within a dollar to travellin to Auk..
When I see guys playing by thier parents credit card..Thats never long term.
Its as cheap as can be and yet they still complain of the cost..
Yet most dont care blowing a$100 on piss on Sat night or a the latest PS2 game..
Apathy is the word I think
Bman.
There's a chance that some decent TV coverage (if we get it) could help motivate people and put the fire back in.
That said, I think that if we can get a decent intro to paintball website up and maybe hand out some brochures and have banners (for TV) or whatever at BBT, we could make good use of it as a serious booster to the sport. The website could introduce the sport, link to suppliers and clubs, and show people how big it is overseas etc. Explain costs and a bit about tactics to get people hooked. Give contact details for clubs to join etc.
If we do that or something like it the sport could grow a lot in NZ.
I'd be willing to write up and help design a website and brochures and banners and stuff.
There's a chance that some decent TV coverage (if we get it) could help motivate people and put the fire back in.
That said, I think that if we can get a decent intro to paintball website up and maybe hand out some brochures and have banners (for TV) or whatever at BBT, we could make good use of it as a serious booster to the sport.
in terms of promoting Tournament paintball I think a broucher would be great, I propose a title 'What the Hell are those people doing'. basically an A4 sheet folded in three with:
1: shiny cover
2: what is paintball, the standard stats (big in US, $Billion sport, international competitions), the two types
3: Tournament paintball, what you do and how (and specific formats i.e. short comp*)
4: moves and tactics
5: why is the guy in the black and white shirt dancing the monkey? (common signs and actions of refs)
6: contact info
Steven
*short comp here is any comp that is not Xball or woods ball
Beaks you mentioned travel..Cost is the major factor hence travelling to OZ is ok to apoint ..but further afield a bit prohibitive on regular basis.
My point is purely why try and force yourselve into what the rest of the world does when it's not a viable option to (really) ever play overseas. It's like me using the South African Tiddlywinks rules when I'm never going to play there, no matter how good I am at Tiddlywinks...(and thats damn good).
But what the rest of the world does probably wont be that bad for us. Also, even if most people never will play overseas (though many do from my team at least), if we do come up with our own cute little ruleset then we automatically limit the growth of the sport. Foreign teams wont bother coming over even as much as they have if they are having to learn a whole new ruleset.
And what if it ever becomes olympic, or if there are other international comps we want to go to? I know at the moment it seems unlikely, but if it ever does we want to be able to play the same rules we've learned in order to have a decent shot at winning. Imagine what would've happened if when basketball was just a new sport someone in NZ decided we were going to ignore the US rules and make up our own... you may say "oh but paintball will never get that big" but in acting as though that's the case you're helping to fulfill your own prophecy.
Burnt Toast
30-08-2006, 08:47
But this isn't about the rest of the world, it isn't even about what rules we use (even if we make up our own, which we won't).
It's about keeping the tournie players we already have, and about trying to encourage more people to play tournie paintball.
Hell in Wellington we don't even have somewhere to fucking play.
Whats the use of going on about Rules, bits of paper, TV and shit like that when we (local here in Wellington) can't even shoot fuckin paint.
Last time I shot paint was in Brisbane, the time before that Auckland and before that Easter, on a sports field we had to clean after the event.
I can't introduce someone to tournie paintball without paint (re-ball just doesn't cut it), and obviously this doesn't apply to the entire country.
But I don't really care about the rest of the country, other places have there own shit to sort out, I just care about here and what I can do here.
Good news for you, we now have an indoor paint airball field available in wellington :)
I know what ya saying Beaks..all good
Its the Apathy we have in NZ about ball in general
It always amusing when i read about Rules , Field designs etc on the NZ boards when in reality we should thinking..Lets just get more players into tourney ball.
It does start grass roots level..
Doesnt have to even be on Sup Air..just getting guys into playing ball and showing them the other side of ball once they are hooked..Gotta hookem first.
Cost is afactor thats true.
I never tell anybody who asks about Tourney ball its cheap..
Most always say "I bet the paints cheaper"
Its as cheap as it should be..in fact where it went wrong was Suppliers selling paint that cheap to any joe blow on Trademe etc ..when I say its X dollars per case at a tourney they say..Oh thats not any cheaper.
So its a collective effort..No individual can sort this mess.
I do have some ideas that I want to float with some guys I hold in high esteem in NZ ball.
Bman
Burnt Toast
30-08-2006, 11:32
Good news for you, we now have an indoor paint airball field available in wellington :)
Have you used it yet?, have you dived around on saw dust?.
nope, but you were saying there weren't any at all. You're right sawdust might not be the greatest :/
for the guns either.
Yeah, there is now an indoor location with sawdust.
I'm not bothered about the fact its indoor, or whats underfoot. What we need is a decent place to TRAIN for tournies. If we had tournies indoors on sawdust it'll be great to train on. But we don't. Tournies are run on grass, outside. Thats what we need to train.
Needs to be flat, grassy, with no concern about cleaning up, so we don't waste 2 hours putting the feild together, and 2 hours taking it down, when we can ball for those 4 hours.
What happened to the paintball fields in wellers???? John and Rob have fields last i heard, whats wrong with using there fields?
cheers
uh... heh
Pomare is falling/fallen apart, and so is Thunderball. Aint no speedball thar no more.
thunderball = we could train on the tyre field....... except i dont think our medical insurance or gear would hold up.........
TAG = in Grenada nth there is a large bush field, in pomare there is a bush field and a small (think smaller than easter at thunderball 3 years ago) tyre field, and there was a sawdust covered supair field, but underneath was really lumpy uneven clay, and bad drainage and no maintanace. one of the last times we trained there someone tore a hamstring due to the ground attacking him........... and thats the flattest field we have......
Nz paintball is fucked, atleast in australia there on the up and up and have a couple of series goin. And the teams have something to aim for.
Any competitive person needs goals/dreams to aim for (eg, win a series/league) , problem with 90% of australasian ballers is they couldnt give a shit, they'd rather bitch and moan about small petty problems. And not think about what tourney ball is. Its supposed to be close to the 'SPORT' of paintball. not a fuck around with your mates.
If ANYONE went overseas (out of the pacific) they'd see that the level of events, even local series, is 10 times what we could ever produce in NZ. There are events nearly every weekend in england for example, and most would get around 30 teams easily playing multiple divisions.
I say fuck it, fuck off all concerned and start afresh with a totally new player base. Run a small series and look to grow it over a few years.
The idea of real TV coverage in NZ is a joke, look at the size of the NPPL and look at how long its taken them. Paintball is a Minority sport, get used to it. NZ is too small for industry sponsership of any great amount.
You will also find no great experience in NZ, or basic skill sets that will let you compete in USA or Europe for that matter, unless you go there to gain them.
Blah Blah Blah, I hate forums, Im sick of Paintball, Australasian paintball is a drain on ones basic sanity.
Nz paintball is fucked, at least in australia there on the up and up and have a couple of series goin. And the teams have something to aim for.
Any competitive person needs goals/dreams to aim for (eg, win a series/league) , problem with 90% of australasian ballers is they couldnt give a shit, they'd rather bitch and moan about small petty problems. And not think about what tourney ball is. Its supposed to be close to the 'SPORT' of paintball. not a fuck around with your mates. until all the 'pro' nz players accept that, the sooner all can get on with it.
If ANYONE went overseas (out of the pacific) they'd see that the level of events, even local series, is 10 times what we could ever produce in NZ. There are events nearly every weekend in england for example, and most would get around 30 teams easily playing multiple divisions.
I say fuck it, fuck off all concerned and start afresh with a totally new player base. Run a small series and look to grow it over a few years. Coz the current (prolly last 3 years) player base is self destructing itself.
The idea of real TV coverage in NZ is a joke, look at the size of the NPPL and look at how long its taken them. Paintball is a Minority sport, get used to it. NZ is too small for industry sponsership of any great amount, if you wanna get on tv/dvd's go to the States.
You will also find no great experience in NZ, or basic skill sets that will let you compete in USA or Europe for that matter, unless you go there to gain them.
Blah Blah Blah, I hate forums, Im sick of Paintball, Australasian paintball is a drain on ones basic sanity.
Im officially hanging out the Union Jack as my flag of choice, I've had it with NZ players stabbing me in the back.
End of rant.....................see ya
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