View Full Version : Sad State of NZ Ball
As posted in another thread.. time for me to be controversial again :-P
Wrote this tonite after a beer or two:
Thursday, February 01, 2007
The sad state of New Zealand Paintball.
2007 for me is my 10th year of involvement with paintball in New Zealand - with it all starting out at Commando One for a friends 13th birthday party back in 1997. Since then I've some great things happen to the sport, and some really bad things, like the lack of sustained growth in the sporting side.
This is strange, as there are massive amounts of (entry level) paintball markers being sold in New Zealand, and fields like Actions in west auckland see hundreds of people play ball every weekend (be it rental or recreational games). So what is preventing New Zealand paintball from growing into a legitimate sport? Why is it that Malaysia (where paintball began in 2004, the year I visited and refereed their first international tournament) has had stunning growth and we have had decline?
The first issue would be demographics, we simply have a small population - that said, 1 million people in Auckland should be more than enough to sustain a few decent teams. But we do lack the critical mass of people, and there is a massive amount of fields in comparison to those who play.
Second would be organisation. New Zealand lacks a real organisation to lead the sport into the future. It has the NZPPA, which unfortuanately is not independent of a couple of certain fields and is not respected by the playing population at large. If paintball is to grow in New Zealand, it needs an organisation that can provide a set of rules, as similar as possible to overseas standards as New Zealand law requires. The organisation needs to work to actively promote the sport and a proper tournament series.
Team hopping is another issue, along with sandbagging of players in teams. The lack of a clear organisation and player database allows teamhopping and the stacking of teams between tournaments which means that often teams dissapear overnight, or a "new" team is created which is really another team in drag. There is no easy way to make a distinction between the experianced and top teams, and the fresh teams when you see them on paper.
Which leads to the next issue. The lack of a novice of "handicapped" division that feeds into the "pro/am" division. There needs to be something to bridge the gap between the rental player, the recreational player and the tournament player who spends hundreds of dollars a month on shooting paint. For the average player the idea of paying $500 plus for a weekend of getting shot to shit by players with 5 to 10 times more experiance than them is not particularily popular. Hence the lack of new blood in New Zealand paintball.
The final two issues would be legal issues and personalities. We have the bottle problem thanks to some nice socialist people at Erma, who think that international ATSM and DOT standards are worthless and expect us to retest every bottle that comes into the country at the cost of thousands for something that is in reality only worth $300 and has a limited market. This greatly reduces competition and is an artificial barrier to entry created by the government. There is no incentive to legalise more bottles at your own expense as any other competitor can free ride off your investment. Then there is the ambigious parts of the Arms Act. The 1983 Arms act quite clearly states that there are exemptions for "stock markers" which is what the early paintball markers are. But the police treat all paintball markers as airguns, and the stock marker expemption has never need tested in the court of law with a competant lawyer. This creates all sorts of restrictions on ownership, importation, resale, firing modes and ages of play, which again hurts the playerbase with no increase to the "public good" in terms of safety. (face it someone is more likely to commit a crime with a $100 pump action off trade me than a $2500 paintmarker with multiple firing modes in from the USA). Regulation on paintball simply achieves nothing for the public, but hurts the legitimate sport.
Finally is some of the cancerous personalities in paintball. They are simply forcing people to leave. Why play or referee if you are going to be abused by a team who thinks its ok to cheat or threaten a player, or slander them off the field. I know thats why I stopped playing competativlely, as did many other well known figures in the NZ paintball scene. There are too many adults acting like children.
So for paintball to grow in New Zealand it needs:
a) consistant marketing and a well run web community (not the terrible paintball.co.nz website)
b) a proper body to represent it legally, on the news, to draft rules and to track players and teams
c) a feeder division at major tournaments to introduce new players to the sport in a manner that won't see them gunned down off the break
d) the legal issues sorted out once and for all. This will never happen with the current government and its attitudes to firearms owners
e) certain personalities to tone it down or leave the sport.
f) field ops or players to create grass roots local tournaments (i.e. 3 man) with prizes to get new blood interested
Once these happen we might see the return of grass roots paintball, and increase in numbers and maybe a reason for international teams to come across again. Untill this happens we will just see a steady decline of players and the rec scene increase.
http://mikeenz.blogspot.com/2007/02/sad-state-of-new-zealand-paintball.html
Tell me I'm nuts.
All good points.
That said, I did feel that BBT was *starting* (slowly and not without major annoyances) to sortof maybe move in the right direction. Major annoyances including the personality issue you speak of.
I know that there are a good (5, maybe) number of people around who have thought this through enough to agree with you. Getting something started on the other hand is an entirely seperate ball game.
I'll leave you with this:
http://vijil.blogspot.com/
wrote it about March last year. Seems awfully optimistic now! but still I think I made some good points.
Burnt Toast
02-02-2007, 09:52
I've heard enough talk about this, and i don't have time to read Blogs. (http://mama.indstate.edu/users/bones/WhyIHateWebLogs.html)
I'll just keep talking to people and encourging them to come along and give it a try, weather they do or don't doesn't matter, i'm just letting people know it's out there.
Most people still think i run around in the bushes (no offence Bush Ballers).
That's cool too.
Hey when will we see you back at training?
Burnt Toast
02-02-2007, 10:07
Hi Vij,
Looking forward to coming back to training next tuesday.
Very fired up and ready to go.
Also might try and get the evening running going again soon too.
Your nuts MIkey ehhheehehe Nah your not
My partner asked me why there was only 8 teams at the Northlands and I ended up talkin for a couple of hrs about the decline of teams in NZ, i have played for 2 teams previous to starting Legion , Kamo K and Raiderz of those 2 teams I am the only one still playin ...go figure
BBT went the way it did due to a number of people puttin ther heart and soul into the event to make it happen i.e the field was a copy ish of a US field not a classic nz design AND importantly everyone wanted it to work..
Hey geeze I played for Kamo back in '93ish ya wipper-snapper. :) I still play, just not very often and not very well ;)
As fer the sad state of NZ ball.. yep, same old shit, everyone knows what needs to be done but no-one want to do it 'cause it'll cost alot of time, money and effort and the majority of people/players will just give ya bollox for trying anyhoos. Pesimistic maybe, but that's what i've seen since '93.
Stat
greyghost
07-02-2007, 16:15
You played your first game at Commando in 97.... I played in the first game held at Commando1988, 89?.. and it was very hairy and frightening also dangerous with only googles and. 62 cal guns set to fire at 350 fps ... I still remember old Rob Tapper saying "painballs go alot straighter if you shoot at that speed and there lighter than 68cal balls so that won't hurt as much".. I got one in the side of the head from close range and it knocked me to the ground and I got cut on the other side of my face from a rock ... if fact every game I played there I came out bleeding and bruised ..Commando was a bad place for paintball but I liked playing there.It was situated around an old Quarry , rocks everywhere overgrown gorse, mounds, gullies and generally a bad place, most guys i knew didn't like playing there except on the speedball field which was new in paintball and a real eye opener back then of where the future of the game was going to go ... To be honest I was horrified that the game of paintball was lowered to such standards as playing it inside an arena and in those days paint was much more expensive and you shot heaps trying to stay in there. People cheat playing this game, always have, always going to, they are sad undeserving holders of top titles to do with form and competition within the so called sport of paintball in every country of the world . Fancy going to team practice and finding cheating practice is what the Captain has on for tonites agenda, or how to fool the ref . I have thought for a long time that we need a different type of National competition held yearly for individuals ,not teams. where cheating is out of the question because it doesnt come into the game play as the thing that counts is the skill at arms and those things that every paintballer should know how to do well if he or she is indeed worthy of the top title. All participants on the same terms on a fair footing where you compete against the clock and you are tested on all paintball related activities whether your a speedballer or a bushballer its 'shoot and scoot' and its how well you do those two things that ballin is about . So guys , ... Teams come and go, you have all been in those teams , and now that team aint around anymore, but your still here shooting balls 10 years later.... so lets test you as an individual every year in a comp and screw the team thing ... I would like to be involved with a competition like this and already got heaps of ideas on how to make it standard for the whole country to take part at different venues on different days.. Every field operator in the country could easily be involved holding regional heats in their area to find a selected few that are worthy to go into a grand final ... That Grand final would involve the best ballerz from every region in N.Z.... and the test would be exactly the same all over N.Z.(maybe a few different twists) no matter what area you live in, because we set the standard for that comp on paper and everyone follows it to the letter . If you want to enter in another region ,go for it , take the test in any region 10 times if you want ... the Grand final would then be by invitation to those top shooterz from every region doing that same basic tests that all have participated in . Would you go into a competition that at the end gives you a number as a national average of how you compared to all others who have taken the same identical test .. We are starting to get something like this going in our paintball club on a social level and the idea is very well recieved cause its different and its for the individual... and good fun, honest stuff like paintball should be.. If we want change in the way things are done I think we gotta make those changes ourselves and forget the widening rift between speedballers and bush ballin maybe forget the humericans version of ballin 30 a second which is so weak to guys who used to pump every ball by hand ..we all know its two very different games that come under the heading, paintball.Just thinkin out loud here , not wanting to cause any controversey like on the young boyz forum... cheers all Greyghost (getting greyer)
I can't be bothered slogging my way through that until you fix your grammar and add some paragraphs.
greyghost
07-02-2007, 17:23
no wonder the state of paint ball is sad with people like you ...
Shane396
07-02-2007, 18:10
What you are talking about greyghost is a target competition, no paintballing. Alot of paintballing is teamwork, and th (dare i say it) thrill of being shot at.
If i was to go target shooting (which i do) i would go down to the rifle range with my .243 and shoot that which takes alot more skill to shoot than a paintball marker.
And vijil is totally correct- paragraphs,puncuation e.t.c. that was terrible to struggle through that to find that you we're suggesting a "skill" competition- not paintball.
greyghost
07-02-2007, 18:16
P*NT Forum Moderator , Why do you allow in this forum that people carry on a conversation in someones post that has nothing to do with the title subject... Fair go talking to your mates about a load of tripe, to make them selves look good is what is wrong with paintball in general. Get rid of them please before we all get sick and chunder... if this gets me banned then, what the ..... who needs it ...
greyghost
07-02-2007, 18:20
shane , The target thing is just a small part of what I got in mind .
Greyghost, it's actually very hard for me to understand what you're talking about because of the way you write it - which is why I wont read right through the long post you made until you fix it. I have nothing against you personally and your ideas may be good, but I can't tell because I can't understand them.
As for "no wonder the state of paint ball is sad with people like you", this isn't necessary. It doesn't get anyone anywhere to use meaningless personal attacks. Personal attacks are a large part of what is wrong with paintball. So don't do it.
I'm simply suggesting that you proof read your posts to make sure they are easy to understand before posting them. If you can fix up your first post, I'll read it and let you know what I think of the ideas. At the moment I have so much trouble reading it that any response I make will probably be based on a misinterpretation - so I'm not going to.
Shane396
07-02-2007, 21:32
Yes but a large part is using maneuvering and tactics to outwit the opposition (tactics in the broadest sense of the word) i don't think many people who play semi-pro and pro paintball play to get better at shooting their gat
an attempt at formatting as I read it
You played your first game at Commando in 97.... I played in the first game held at Commando1988, 89?.. and it was very hairy and frightening. Also dangerous with only googles and. 62 cal guns set to fire at 350 fps ... I still remember old Rob Tapper saying "painballs go alot straighter if you shoot at that speed and there lighter than 68cal balls so that won't hurt as much"..
I got one in the side of the head from close range and it knocked me to the ground and I got cut on the other side of my face from a rock ... if fact every game I played there I came out bleeding and bruised ..Commando was a bad place for paintball but I liked playing there.It was situated around an old Quarry , rocks everywhere overgrown gorse, mounds, gullies and generally a bad place, most guys i knew didn't like playing there except on the speedball field which was new in paintball and a real eye opener back then of where the future of the game was going to go
To be honest I was horrified that the game of paintball was lowered to such standards as playing it inside an arena and in those days paint was much more expensive and you shot heaps trying to stay in there. People cheat playing this game, always have, always going to, they are sad undeserving holders of top titles to do with form and competition within the so called sport of paintball in every country of the world . Fancy going to team practice and finding cheating practice is what the Captain has on for tonites agenda, or how to fool the ref .
I have thought for a long time that we need a different type of National competition held yearly for individuals ,not teams. where cheating is out of the question because it doesnt come into the game play as the thing that counts is the skill at arms and those things that every paintballer should know how to do well if he or she is indeed worthy of the top title.
All participants on the same terms on a fair footing where you compete against the clock and you are tested on all paintball related activities whether your a speedballer or a bushballer its 'shoot and scoot' and its how well you do those two things that ballin is about . So guys , ... Teams come and go, you have all been in those teams , and now that team aint around anymore, but your still here shooting balls 10 years later.... so lets test you as an individual every year in a comp and screw the team thing ... I would like to be involved with a competition like this and already got heaps of ideas on how to make it standard for the whole country to take part at different venues on different days..
Every field operator in the country could easily be involved holding regional heats in their area to find a selected few that are worthy to go into a grand final ... That Grand final would involve the best ballerz from every region in N.Z.... and the test would be exactly the same all over N.Z.(maybe a few different twists) no matter what area you live in, because we set the standard for that comp on paper and everyone follows it to the letter . If you want to enter in another region ,go for it , take the test in any region 10 times if you want ... the Grand final would then be by invitation to those top shooterz from every region doing that same basic tests that all have participated in .
Would you go into a competition that at the end gives you a number as a national average of how you compared to all others who have taken the same identical test .. We are starting to get something like this going in our paintball club on a social level and the idea is very well recieved cause its different and its for the individual... and good fun, honest stuff like paintball should be.. If we want change in the way things are done
I think we gotta make those changes ourselves and forget the widening rift between speedballers and bush ballin maybe forget the humericans version of ballin 30 a second which is so weak to guys who used to pump every ball by hand ..we all know its two very different games that come under the heading, paintball.Just thinkin out loud here , not wanting to cause any controversey like on the young boyz forum...
cheers all Greyghost (getting greyer)
Cox,
yes the irony of me correcting grammer does not escape me
Vij it may come as a surprise but some of us dont live behind a computer every day , some of us use pens and write .. so some times when typing is required it just rolls out...
Right then.. been thinkin , as Stat said same shite . well the idea of an amatuer league, how would it be policied ?
As Ive said before yes thats whats wrong , but how are WE to fix it..
Yes thats the thing entry level ball ... new player s entry level markers?
dont think so .. mummy and daddy may buy him the latest marker
look due to low numbers of people in NZ and playin paintball we will always struggle now to fill tournies .. some teams will travel ,some will play good ball , some will just fill spots , cause they like the road trip
Flashpoint will always turn up and win D2 .. sandbaggers =)
team need to be introduced into local series and then develop with a senior team helpin them .. not a feeder but just showing them the ropes..
I started with a team that after a few years i realised wasnt for me , so had to start one because the other top teams didnt want me oh well sniff sniff
Howse the grammer ViJ upto your standard?
Wow Firefox you must've spent some time on that - thanks.
Some good ideas in there greyghost. A one on one comp would be a first.
Big SY it's just that is IS very hard to read big long unformatted streams, you've gotta admit. It's fine to just type it all out first, but at least go in and push enter or backspace a few times so that people can read it easilly and without getting confused. It's really not that hard.
I'm not a grammar nazi, it's just that I don't have all day to read the forum when I'm at work.
Dam u cheat , I have to read mine at home :P
greyghost
13-02-2007, 17:57
This apolologe is to Vigil , who I abused very badly last week.... SORRY I said the "things" I said and I must say you took it very well. They were cheap shots and I had no right carry on like that in this forum ...
In our club ''that'' would be grounds for a firing squad .
i agree with you all . im new to paintball i only started 4 months ago and im finding it so hard to get people togeather to play and i dont want to join one of the long running clubs and play with the pro's and there flash markers and get my ass kicked. i would love to be able to play entry leavel with my cheep ass mach marker and co2 in some sort of torny
and mike you hit some good points but it goes a bit ferther than just the players personalitys though . well up here anyway. some of the field opps need to start setting good examples too .
i had only just started playing and one of the first things i here is that one of the field opps wants someone to go to the new field and get some pic's and report back .
the next thing someone want me to go round slagging on the new field . of corse i didnt want anything to do with this or where it came from witch is sad cause i like playing at all the fields
and then and this is where i started thinking i need to find a new sport i get players telling and hasseling me not to go to the new field and slagging on it hard cor i even asked one of them if he had ever been there cause what he was telling me was nothing like what i had seen and he sead no he had been told all about it by his opp mate the same one that wanted the pic's .
and thay wanted me to play with them i dont think so!!
so to end my rant is there anyone running entry leavel games and if not how can we make it happen ?
sorry for the spelling
ANTSMAN68
20-05-2007, 16:24
hey dude, we play at indoor in petone usually monday nights, with some experienced and some new players, inside on air ball field, or if thats not ur cup o tea, John at Thunderball at Manor park holds a new guy league but youd need to talk to him to find out dates and times.
yes there is a lot of bullbirt that goeson, and the majority need not happen, just got to wade thru it/ignore it and shoot ppls :0
ants
Thanks Ants but a bit far away for me im in whangarei but when i go down there ill look it up .
yer it doesnt need to happin alright especily for a 50 yo growen man thats ment to be in bussness
is there any rec ball clubs that have entry leavel in whangarei that you know of or do you know where i can find out ?
brasswhore
30-05-2007, 20:49
the problem with NZ paintball (or its major one) even since my days of playing in 85-86 (I actually helped to set up Commando one, sorry to anyone who left with broken arms but stone is very unforgiving) is
1 lack of direction
2 a governing body that actually governs (no disrespect it takes a tremendous amount of time and effort and cost, all for players who usually only complaine that you didnt do put an infentessamil dot on the lower case i)
3 noobs NEED TO BE SHELTERD! great head out for a weekend of play with your spanky 30bps calculater and shoot up some new players (wow everyone clap for the big man!) in terms of fairness you should be using a JABB or even a JABF hell go all they way and get a nice little pump action (as no one realy likes to use field rentals) because the players you shoot up today will be put off for ever and he tells his mate who is less likely to come along and give it a go, and once again paintball is stagnent no growth.
4 a lot off people still see paintball as a bush ball game we need a regular scenario style game ok I am not expecting a Blanding (OMG it rocked) type thing, but we have enough realy great locations in these country that are not used.
5 self governing, if you see some one cheat THROW THEM OUT!!!!!!! in 25 years I have seen (what I thought) every form of cheating but each time I go out I see something new..........it is a sport act with honor!
Good things about NZ paintball! a few dedicated players that formed viable working fields and followed their dreams, most field I have been to have much stricter saftey measures (thats can not be bad, after witnessing 2 blindings and 1 near blinding), its in NZ we dont have to travel 4 hours to get to a field , paint is much cheaper (there is on expection that still charges the same price as they did in 1987) .
BRASSWHORE.......wow is that a shotgun mister? or one of them angels?
JD - which field was this?
Brasswhore? Heh, commando one.. that was my start in paintball, but the "newer" field... i.e. the one that shut down 8 or so years ago :-P
mike : the new field in whangarei is ae paintball im told and the only other field that has a club that i know of is strategy tag. pigs head road has closed im told and its sad to see nothing has changed in the last 4 years
jd : send me your contact details im not in whangarei at the mo but i got mates that are and play just for fun ill get them to ring you if you like and if ite the field im thinking of that gave you the hassels they dont play there we got sick of it years ago too
ill leave you a msg with it jase. i dont want to put it on here and get more hassels and yes you are correct strategy tag is the slagging field but doesnt matter myself and my mates dont go there anymore anyway and i dont realy want to play in any tornys anymore i just want to play for fun only now
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